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	<title>Comments on: How agriculture gave rise to the ecological crisis &#8211; and a host of other human crises as well</title>
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	<link>http://www.ecologicalhope.org/featured/how-agriculture-gave-rise-to-the-ecological-crisis-and-a-host-of-other-human-crises-as-well/</link>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://www.ecologicalhope.org/featured/how-agriculture-gave-rise-to-the-ecological-crisis-and-a-host-of-other-human-crises-as-well/comment-page-1/#comment-45931</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecologicalhope.org/?p=4319#comment-45931</guid>
		<description>Well, also, what if we healed our spirits enough to no longer need to be &#039;incentivized,&#039; to do the &#039;right&#039; things we draw meaning and pleasure from doing them?  What if we no longer needed to be rewarded from the outside?

What if we could return to the heart of ourselves, heal the alienation that needs to be fed over and over again by external rewards?

I don&#039;t think we can begin to heal the world until we no longer need to project our alienation onto it, until we begin to rediscover life and being alive as good in themselves.

In the short run, we need economic incentives to try to affect the current disastrous path we are on.  But this will only perhaps buy us a little more time until we can do the work of healing the human spirit and getting ourselves back into balance with the nature that is our true home.

Thanks always, Stephen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, also, what if we healed our spirits enough to no longer need to be &#8216;incentivized,&#8217; to do the &#8216;right&#8217; things we draw meaning and pleasure from doing them?  What if we no longer needed to be rewarded from the outside?</p>
<p>What if we could return to the heart of ourselves, heal the alienation that needs to be fed over and over again by external rewards?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we can begin to heal the world until we no longer need to project our alienation onto it, until we begin to rediscover life and being alive as good in themselves.</p>
<p>In the short run, we need economic incentives to try to affect the current disastrous path we are on.  But this will only perhaps buy us a little more time until we can do the work of healing the human spirit and getting ourselves back into balance with the nature that is our true home.</p>
<p>Thanks always, Stephen</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Salmony</title>
		<link>http://www.ecologicalhope.org/featured/how-agriculture-gave-rise-to-the-ecological-crisis-and-a-host-of-other-human-crises-as-well/comment-page-1/#comment-45912</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Salmony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecologicalhope.org/?p=4319#comment-45912</guid>
		<description>Let us imagine that it is a cultural perversion for people to widely share and consensually validate the pernicious belief that both &quot;doing the right thing&quot; and &quot;doing the greedy thing&quot; are virtues.  I would submit to you that doing what is right is surely a virtue but doing the greedy thing is certainly not.  The perversion in such circumstances is this: doing the right things is good, but this good behavior is often not rewarded.  Alternatively, doing greedy things is not virtuous and yet is much more uniformly rewarded as if it were somehow good behavior.

Please consider that great wealth and the political power it purchases are derived from unbridled greed and that greediness is everywhere incentivized.  Then we can see how greed rather than doing what is good comes to effectively rule the world in our time. 

What if economic incentives rewarded doing right things and put at a disadvantage doing greedy things?  Would that allow us to move forward along another path marked by mitigating the noticeably disasterous global ecological effects of rampant human selfishness and, thereby, to go a long way toward resolving the human-driven global challenges already visible in the offing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us imagine that it is a cultural perversion for people to widely share and consensually validate the pernicious belief that both &#8220;doing the right thing&#8221; and &#8220;doing the greedy thing&#8221; are virtues.  I would submit to you that doing what is right is surely a virtue but doing the greedy thing is certainly not.  The perversion in such circumstances is this: doing the right things is good, but this good behavior is often not rewarded.  Alternatively, doing greedy things is not virtuous and yet is much more uniformly rewarded as if it were somehow good behavior.</p>
<p>Please consider that great wealth and the political power it purchases are derived from unbridled greed and that greediness is everywhere incentivized.  Then we can see how greed rather than doing what is good comes to effectively rule the world in our time. </p>
<p>What if economic incentives rewarded doing right things and put at a disadvantage doing greedy things?  Would that allow us to move forward along another path marked by mitigating the noticeably disasterous global ecological effects of rampant human selfishness and, thereby, to go a long way toward resolving the human-driven global challenges already visible in the offing?</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://www.ecologicalhope.org/featured/how-agriculture-gave-rise-to-the-ecological-crisis-and-a-host-of-other-human-crises-as-well/comment-page-1/#comment-45889</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecologicalhope.org/?p=4319#comment-45889</guid>
		<description>A 5:47 video with Rob Hopkins, founder of the Transition Movement:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGHrWPtCvg0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGHrWPtCvg0&lt;/a&gt;

To order the &lt;em&gt;Transition Handbook: From Oil Dependency to Local Resilience&lt;/em&gt;, click &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Transition-Handbook-Dependency-Resilience-Guides/dp/1900322188&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A 5:47 video with Rob Hopkins, founder of the Transition Movement:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGHrWPtCvg0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGHrWPtCvg0</a></p>
<p>To order the <em>Transition Handbook: From Oil Dependency to Local Resilience</em>, click <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Transition-Handbook-Dependency-Resilience-Guides/dp/1900322188" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: hombredelatierra</title>
		<link>http://www.ecologicalhope.org/featured/how-agriculture-gave-rise-to-the-ecological-crisis-and-a-host-of-other-human-crises-as-well/comment-page-1/#comment-45875</link>
		<dc:creator>hombredelatierra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecologicalhope.org/?p=4319#comment-45875</guid>
		<description>Hi Margaret,

I agree completely with the last 2 paragraphs of your comment.

Global Warming (GW) deniers are not reachable or not reachable in sufficient numbers for it to warrant further investment of time. We have frittered away the time needed to &quot;transition&quot; smoothly to a green energy future. Some northern European countries - Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland - have made steps in the right direction. Enough? Time will tell..

The stranglehold by the media is too great to break. GW denial is now at the level of &quot;mass hypnosis&quot; or &quot;collective psychosis&quot;, a self-reinforcing, collective delusional system leading to disaster. Is that not madness?

Observe the &quot;climategate&quot; swindle: a good portion of the public is befuddled by the fossil fuel lobby spin. They seem unable to grasp that the PHYSICAL FACTS of global warming have not changed one iota by what Prof A says about Prof B. Yet, could anything be simpler..

For this reason, I have decided to invest my time in the Transition Towns (TT) initiative.

The following link gives access to the Transition Handbook, a 165 page manifesto, well written, of the movement:

http://resiliencecycle.ning.com/profiles/blogs/des-documents-interessants

This is the first document in the list. One thing I find admirable in the philosophy of TT is the recognition that GW and Peak Oil are linked processes which interact in complex and unpredictable ways over time and differentially between regions. They cannot be dealt with in isolation from each other (&quot;Cartesian&quot; or linear approach to problem solving). Instead the emphasis must be on (re-)building COMMUNITY RESILIENCE, the capacity of communities to withstand the shocks of the emerging &quot;New Economy&quot; (post peak oil)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Margaret,</p>
<p>I agree completely with the last 2 paragraphs of your comment.</p>
<p>Global Warming (GW) deniers are not reachable or not reachable in sufficient numbers for it to warrant further investment of time. We have frittered away the time needed to &#8220;transition&#8221; smoothly to a green energy future. Some northern European countries &#8211; Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland &#8211; have made steps in the right direction. Enough? Time will tell..</p>
<p>The stranglehold by the media is too great to break. GW denial is now at the level of &#8220;mass hypnosis&#8221; or &#8220;collective psychosis&#8221;, a self-reinforcing, collective delusional system leading to disaster. Is that not madness?</p>
<p>Observe the &#8220;climategate&#8221; swindle: a good portion of the public is befuddled by the fossil fuel lobby spin. They seem unable to grasp that the PHYSICAL FACTS of global warming have not changed one iota by what Prof A says about Prof B. Yet, could anything be simpler..</p>
<p>For this reason, I have decided to invest my time in the Transition Towns (TT) initiative.</p>
<p>The following link gives access to the Transition Handbook, a 165 page manifesto, well written, of the movement:</p>
<p><a href="http://resiliencecycle.ning.com/profiles/blogs/des-documents-interessants" rel="nofollow">http://resiliencecycle.ning.com/profiles/blogs/des-documents-interessants</a></p>
<p>This is the first document in the list. One thing I find admirable in the philosophy of TT is the recognition that GW and Peak Oil are linked processes which interact in complex and unpredictable ways over time and differentially between regions. They cannot be dealt with in isolation from each other (&#8220;Cartesian&#8221; or linear approach to problem solving). Instead the emphasis must be on (re-)building COMMUNITY RESILIENCE, the capacity of communities to withstand the shocks of the emerging &#8220;New Economy&#8221; (post peak oil)</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://www.ecologicalhope.org/featured/how-agriculture-gave-rise-to-the-ecological-crisis-and-a-host-of-other-human-crises-as-well/comment-page-1/#comment-45861</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecologicalhope.org/?p=4319#comment-45861</guid>
		<description>Rebecca - sorry it took me so long to hit the &#039;approve&#039; button.  I took a couple days away from the computer.  Your comments should be added automatically from now on.

In any case, I appreciate your comment. I don&#039;t mean to imply that we can suddenly turn away from agriculture and become hunters-gatherers again. I am not a &#039;deep&#039; ecologist in that sense. But we do need to move away from agriculture and industrialization as we have known it, modes of production that involve using and storing more than we need, which has fueled the engine of human population growth now choking the planet - esp. since that population is inheriting the same expectations of extraction and consumption.

We need to begin the process of bringing the industrial (including agriculture) way of life down as gently as we can, while tending to matters of justice and equity while we do so.

I guess a little voice tells me that we will not do this by deliberation or conscious choice, because the stakes of wealth and power and expectations are now too great, and those dynamisms are enforced by &#039;weapons of mass destruction.&#039;

So we will learn the hard way.  In the meantime, we need to support resilient communities that begin to create amidst the wreckage another way of life. And we need to hold together as much as we can the eco-communities that the Earth needs in order to regenerate itself in some new balance of life.

Margaret</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca &#8211; sorry it took me so long to hit the &#8216;approve&#8217; button.  I took a couple days away from the computer.  Your comments should be added automatically from now on.</p>
<p>In any case, I appreciate your comment. I don&#8217;t mean to imply that we can suddenly turn away from agriculture and become hunters-gatherers again. I am not a &#8216;deep&#8217; ecologist in that sense. But we do need to move away from agriculture and industrialization as we have known it, modes of production that involve using and storing more than we need, which has fueled the engine of human population growth now choking the planet &#8211; esp. since that population is inheriting the same expectations of extraction and consumption.</p>
<p>We need to begin the process of bringing the industrial (including agriculture) way of life down as gently as we can, while tending to matters of justice and equity while we do so.</p>
<p>I guess a little voice tells me that we will not do this by deliberation or conscious choice, because the stakes of wealth and power and expectations are now too great, and those dynamisms are enforced by &#8216;weapons of mass destruction.&#8217;</p>
<p>So we will learn the hard way.  In the meantime, we need to support resilient communities that begin to create amidst the wreckage another way of life. And we need to hold together as much as we can the eco-communities that the Earth needs in order to regenerate itself in some new balance of life.</p>
<p>Margaret</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca Hecking</title>
		<link>http://www.ecologicalhope.org/featured/how-agriculture-gave-rise-to-the-ecological-crisis-and-a-host-of-other-human-crises-as-well/comment-page-1/#comment-45674</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca Hecking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecologicalhope.org/?p=4319#comment-45674</guid>
		<description>Interesting post, Margaret. There is a lot of truth here. Unfortunately, we are committed to the agriculture path, at least for the foreseeable future. The trick is to try to recover some reverence for the Earth that sustains us, in hopes that we can at least learn to farm in a sustainable way (which we are not doing now). Several indigenous cultures practiced agriculture to a limited degree in a sustainable way. Their existence gives me a bit of hope. Blessings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, Margaret. There is a lot of truth here. Unfortunately, we are committed to the agriculture path, at least for the foreseeable future. The trick is to try to recover some reverence for the Earth that sustains us, in hopes that we can at least learn to farm in a sustainable way (which we are not doing now). Several indigenous cultures practiced agriculture to a limited degree in a sustainable way. Their existence gives me a bit of hope. Blessings.</p>
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